45:29 Blythe: So we've got this transformed empire under Diocletian, but then Constantine comes along and changes everything again by embracing Christianity. How big a deal was that?
45:41 Jackson: It's hard to overstate how revolutionary this was. For nearly three centuries, Christianity had been an illegal religion. Christians were periodically persecuted, sometimes executed for refusing to participate in imperial cult rituals. Then suddenly, in 313 CE, Constantine not only legalized Christianity but began actively promoting it.
46:02 Blythe: What made Constantine convert? Was it genuine religious belief or political calculation?
46:08 Jackson: That's one of history's great debates! Constantine claimed he had a vision before the Battle of the Milvian Bridge in 312 CE—he saw a cross in the sky with the words "In this sign, conquer." Whether you believe that or not, the political benefits were obvious. Christians were a growing minority, they were well-organized, and they had been brutally persecuted by his rival Maxentius.
46:30 Blythe: So supporting Christianity was a way to build a coalition?
0:40 Jackson: Exactly! But it also fundamentally changed what it meant to be Roman. For centuries, Roman identity had been tied to traditional gods, ancestral customs, and civic rituals. Suddenly, the emperor was promoting a religion that rejected all of that in favor of worshipping a Jewish carpenter who had been executed as a criminal.
46:55 Blythe: That must have been shocking to traditional Romans.
10:48 Jackson: It was! And Constantine didn't stop with just legalizing Christianity. He built magnificent churches, gave bishops political authority, and even presided over church councils to settle theological disputes. The emperor who had once been pontifex maximus—high priest of the traditional Roman gods—was now actively shaping Christian doctrine.
47:18 Blythe: And he also founded Constantinople, right?
47:21 Jackson: In 330 CE, yes! He built a "New Rome" on the site of the ancient Greek city of Byzantium and moved the imperial capital there. This wasn't just about geography—it was about creating a Christian capital for a Christian empire, free from the pagan associations of old Rome.
47:39 Blythe: So Rome itself was no longer the center of the Roman Empire?
47:43 Jackson: Not really. By Constantine's time, emperors rarely visited Rome. The real power was wherever the emperor happened to be—often on the frontiers dealing with military crises. Moving the capital to Constantinople just made official what had been true for decades.
47:59 Blythe: And this is when the empire splits permanently into eastern and western halves?
48:04 Jackson: The division becomes more formalized, yes. After Constantine's death in 337, the empire was usually ruled by multiple emperors—sometimes cooperating, sometimes fighting each other. The last emperor to rule the entire empire alone was Theodosius I, who died in 395.
48:22 Blythe: What was happening in the west while Constantinople was becoming the new center of power?
48:27 Jackson: The western empire was struggling with increasing barbarian pressure and internal decay. The sack of Rome by Visigothic leader Alaric in 410 CE shocked the entire Mediterranean world. Rome, the eternal city that hadn't been captured by foreign enemies for eight hundred years, was looted by Germanic tribesmen.
48:46 Blythe: How did Romans react to that?
48:48 Jackson: With a mixture of horror and soul-searching. Some blamed the abandonment of the traditional gods—if Rome had turned its back on Jupiter and Mars, why should those gods protect the city? Others, like Augustine, argued that earthly kingdoms were always temporary and that Christians should focus on the heavenly city.
49:06 Blythe: So the sack of Rome triggered a religious and philosophical crisis?
8:08 Jackson: Absolutely! Augustine's "City of God," written partly in response to the sack, became one of the most influential works of Christian philosophy. But it also shows how Romans were trying to make sense of their empire's decline within a Christian framework.
49:24 Blythe: And things got worse from there?
49:27 Jackson: Much worse. The Vandals sacked Rome again in 455. The Huns under Attila terrorized both halves of the empire. Germanic tribes were settling permanently within imperial borders, sometimes as federates—allied troops—but increasingly as independent kingdoms.
49:43 Blythe: So the western empire was essentially being carved up by barbarian tribes?
49:48 Jackson: That's exactly what was happening. By the mid-5th century, the Vandals controlled North Africa, the Visigoths held most of Spain, the Franks were expanding in Gaul, and various Germanic tribes had settled in Britain after the Romans withdrew their legions.
50:02 Blythe: When does the western empire officially end?
50:06 Jackson: The traditional date is 476 CE, when a Germanic chieftain named Odoacer deposed the last western emperor, Romulus Augustulus. But here's what's interesting—Odoacer didn't claim to be emperor himself. He sent the imperial regalia to Constantinople and asked to be recognized as a Roman official governing Italy on behalf of the eastern emperor.
50:29 Blythe: So even the barbarians wanted to maintain the fiction of Roman authority?
0:40 Jackson: Exactly! The idea of Rome was so powerful that even its conquerors wanted to be seen as legitimate Roman rulers rather than foreign invaders. This pattern continued for centuries—Charlemagne called himself Roman Emperor, the Holy Roman Empire lasted until 1806, and even the Russian tsars claimed to be the heirs of Rome.
50:56 Blythe: And what about the eastern empire? How long did it survive?
50:59 Jackson: The Eastern Roman Empire, which we call the Byzantine Empire, lasted until 1453 when Constantinople fell to the Ottoman Turks. That's over a thousand years after the fall of the west! Under emperors like Justinian in the 6th century, it even reconquered parts of Italy, North Africa, and Spain.
51:19 Blythe: So in some sense, the Roman Empire lasted for over two thousand years?
51:24 Jackson: If you count the Byzantine Empire as Roman—which its inhabitants certainly did—then yes. They called themselves Romans, they maintained Roman law, and they preserved much of classical culture through the Dark Ages. The last Byzantine emperor, Constantine XI, died fighting on the walls of Constantinople in 1453, defending what he considered to be the Roman Empire.
51:48 Blythe: That's an incredible span of time. What made Roman civilization so durable?
51:54 Jackson: I think it was the combination of practical flexibility and powerful ideals. Romans were willing to adapt their system when circumstances changed—from monarchy to republic to empire to Christian empire. But they maintained this vision of Rome as a universal civilization that could incorporate anyone willing to accept Roman law and values. Even when the political structure collapsed, the idea of Rome lived on.