10:40 Lena: Okay, here's something that really caught my attention when I was reading about Voss's approach. He actually argues that getting to "no" is more valuable than getting to "yes." That seems completely backwards to everything I've ever learned about negotiation!
10:56 Miles: I know, right? It's so counterintuitive! But when you think about it from a psychological perspective, it starts to make perfect sense. Most of us have been conditioned to fear the word "no," but Voss discovered it's actually one of the most powerful tools in negotiation.
2:32 Lena: How so? I mean, isn't "no" just rejection?
11:15 Miles: That's what most people think, but Voss learned that "no" actually serves several important functions. First, it gives people a sense of control and safety. When someone can say "no," they don't feel trapped or pressured, which means they're more likely to engage authentically with you.
11:30 Lena: Ah, so it's about creating psychological safety. If I know I can say no, then I'm not going to be as defensive or guarded in the conversation?
0:37 Miles: Exactly! And here's the thing—"no" is often not really about rejection at all. It might mean "I need more information," or "I'm not ready to decide yet," or "I don't understand how this benefits me." Each of those is actually valuable information that can help you move the negotiation forward.
11:56 Lena: So when someone says no, you're not hearing the end of the conversation—you're hearing the beginning of understanding what their real concerns are?
12:04 Miles: You've got it! Voss talks about how there are actually three different types of "yes," and two of them are basically useless. There's the counterfeit yes, where people just want to get you to go away. There's the confirmation yes, where they're just acknowledging they heard you. And then there's the commitment yes, which is what you actually want.
12:22 Lena: So if you push too hard for yes too early, you might get one of those fake versions?
8:02 Miles: Absolutely! But when you give people permission to say no, and you actually encourage it, they start to trust that you're not trying to manipulate them. And paradoxically, that makes them much more likely to eventually give you a real yes.
12:39 Lena: This is blowing my mind a little bit. Can you give me a concrete example of how this works in practice?
12:45 Miles: Sure! Let's say you're in sales and you're talking to a potential client. Instead of saying "Are you ready to move forward with this proposal?" you might ask "Is this a ridiculous idea?" or "Does this seem completely unrealistic for your situation?"
4:26 Lena: Oh, that's clever! You're making it easy for them to voice their objections, which gives you information about what's actually holding them back.
0:37 Miles: Exactly! And when they say "No, it's not ridiculous, but I'm concerned about the timeline," now you have something concrete to work with. You've identified their real concern, and you can address it directly.
13:17 Lena: This reminds me of something I've noticed in my own life. When someone gives me an easy way to say no to something, I actually feel more comfortable considering saying yes.
13:26 Miles: That's such a great personal insight! It's because you don't feel manipulated or pressured. You feel like you have genuine agency in the decision, which makes the decision itself feel more authentic.
13:37 Lena: So how do you actually encourage people to say no without seeming like you don't want their business or agreement?
13:43 Miles: It's all about framing and tone. You want to come across as genuinely curious about their concerns, not as someone who's trying to use reverse psychology. You might say something like "I want to make sure this makes sense for your situation. What doesn't work about this approach?"
13:57 Lena: And I imagine your tone has to be genuinely open to hearing their concerns, not defensive?
8:02 Miles: Absolutely! If you get defensive when they voice objections, you've broken the trust you were trying to build. You have to be genuinely curious about understanding their perspective, even when it's not what you want to hear.
14:14 Lena: This is making me think about how we handle disagreement in general. Most of us try to avoid conflict or push through it, but maybe there's value in actually exploring it more deeply?
14:24 Miles: That's a profound insight! Voss talks about how conflict, when handled skillfully, actually leads to better solutions. When you can surface and address the real objections and concerns, you end up with agreements that are much stronger and more sustainable.
14:38 Lena: Because everyone's actual needs are being addressed, rather than just swept under the rug?
0:37 Miles: Exactly! And this connects to something else Voss emphasizes—the difference between positions and interests. Someone's position might be "I can't pay that price," but their underlying interest might be "I need to stay within budget so I don't get in trouble with my boss."
14:57 Lena: And once you understand the underlying interest, you can get creative about finding solutions that address it?
4:35 Miles: Right! Maybe the solution isn't lowering the price—maybe it's structuring payments differently, or including additional value that makes it easier to justify to the boss. But you only discover those possibilities when you dig into the "no" instead of just accepting it at face value.