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Daring to Lead in an AI World 13:24 Lena: We’ve talked a lot about personal growth, but Brené has a massive impact on the business world too. *Dare to Lead* seems like the culmination of her research on organizations.
4:26 Miles: It really is. It’s based on a seven-year study on courage and leadership. And she defines a leader in a very specific way: "Anyone who takes responsibility for recognizing the potential in people and ideas, and has the courage to develop that potential."
13:49 Lena: So you don't need a title to be a leader.
13:52 Miles: Not at all. You can lead from wherever you are. And she found that daring leadership comes down to four skill sets that are 100 percent teachable. It’s not something you’re born with; it’s something you build.
14:02 Lena: Okay, I’m curious. What are the four skill sets?
14:05 Miles: The first is "Rumbling with Vulnerability." This is the foundation. You can’t lead bravely if you aren't willing to have tough conversations and lean into discomfort. The second is "Living into Our Values"—actually practicing what we say we believe.
14:21 Lena: I imagine "Minding the Gap" comes in there? The difference between what we say and what we do?
2:35 Miles: Exactly. If a company says they value "innovation" but then shames anyone who makes a mistake, that’s a huge gap. The third skill set is "Braving Trust," using that BRAVING framework we should probably break down. And the fourth is "Learning to Rise"—the *Rising Strong* process applied to a team.
14:46 Lena: Let’s talk about that BRAVING framework. It’s an acronym for trust, right?
14:51 Miles: It is. B is for Boundaries—respecting them and being clear about yours. R is for Reliability—doing what you say you’re going to do. A is for Accountability—owning your mistakes and making amends. V is for the Vault—not sharing information that isn't yours to share.
15:08 Lena: The Vault is a big one for workplace gossip, isn't it?
Miles: Huge. If you tell me something about someone else, I’m going to wonder what you’re telling them about *me*. It kills trust. I is for Integrity—choosing courage over comfort and doing what’s right, not just what’s fun or easy. N is for Nonjudgment—being able to ask for help without being judged. And G is for Generosity—extending the most generous interpretation to the words and actions of others.
15:36 Lena: That sounds like a dream workplace. But it also sounds like it requires a lot of "unlearning."
15:42 Miles: It does. We’ve been conditioned to think that leadership is about having all the answers and being the most "powerful" person in the room. But Brené argues that in a world where AI and machines can do things faster and better, what humans bring to the table is empathy, connection, and courage.
15:59 Lena: That’s a great point. We can’t out-calculate an AI, but an AI can’t "rumble" with a difficult emotion or build a deep sense of belonging.
2:35 Miles: Exactly. The irony is that we’re often choosing *not* to invest in these human skills at the exact moment we need them most. *Dare to Lead* is a playbook for building "braver leaders and more courageous cultures" so we can navigate all this uncertainty.
16:22 Lena: It’s interesting to see her work evolving with the times. Her latest book, *Strong Ground*, which just came out recently, seems to tackle this even more directly—the volatility of the 2026 world.
16:35 Miles: Yeah, *Strong Ground* is really the 2026 update to *Dare to Lead*. She acknowledges that the world has changed since she first started this research. We’ve had a global pandemic, huge technological shifts, and a lot of political tension. She says we’re in a "connection and courage recession."
16:51 Lena: A "connection and courage recession." That feels very real. So how does *Strong Ground* help us find our footing?
16:59 Miles: It introduces the concept of "Grounded Confidence." It’s the combination of "gritty faith" and "gritty facts." She draws on the Stockdale Paradox—the idea that you have to maintain unwavering faith that you will prevail in the end, *while also* having the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality.
17:16 Lena: So it’s not just "toxic positivity" where we pretend everything is fine.
13:52 Miles: Not at all. It’s about being a scientist about your own life. You test your assumptions, you look at the data, and you’re willing to be wrong. She even quotes Adam Grant about "thinking like a scientist" and avoiding "preacher, prosecutor, or politician" modes.
17:37 Lena: It’s about holding paradoxes, isn't it? Like, I can be afraid *and* brave at the same time.
17:43 Miles: That’s the "Genius of the AND." We often get stuck in "Either/Or" thinking. Either I’m a success or a failure. Either we focus on profit or we focus on people. *Strong Ground* is about holding both. Purpose *and* profit. Discipline *and* creativity.